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Why does "SMITH VD V, JOHN" lose the V from the family name when "SMITH V, JOHN" keeps it? #1080
rules/P9 (a particle that is also a suffix word, beside a family comma) says a lone letter behind such a particle reads as it does in the same part without the particle: a capital is a name word, so SMITH VD V, JOHN should read as SMITH V, JOHN does. Since 2.7.0 it does not. The particle (vd, van, van der) is left heading nothing, and the V becomes the suffix.
Input
2.6.0
2.7.0 through master
SMITH V, JOHN
family SMITH V
family SMITH V
SMITH VD V, JOHN
family SMITH VD V
family SMITH VD, suffix V, reports suffix-or-name
Smith VD V, John
family Smith VD V
family Smith VD, suffix V, reports suffix-or-name
SMITH VAN V, JOHN
family SMITH VAN V
family SMITH VAN, suffix V, reports suffix-or-name
Smith van der V, John
family Smith van der V
family Smith van der, suffix V, reports suffix-or-name
Measured on the 2.6.0 and 2.7.0 wheels and on master (25e698a plus #1079). The comma-less John van V reads family van, suffix V in both 2.6.0 and master, so it is not part of this.
Where it came from. Bisected over the 32 first-parent commits in v2.6.0..v2.7.0: the reading moves at 1f0b07c, "Ask one predicate for every roman-numeral rule (#752, phase 2f) (#886)". Its parent, 2af8da8, reads family SMITH VD V. The trailing numeral's words-to-spare count appears to count the unchained particle as a name word to spare, so the V is read as the suffix. No decisions entry (P9, S10, C3, P2) records or accepts the move. Nothing caught it because P9's example for this sat in prose rather than in a fence. #1079 adds it as a fenced example with a deviates: marker naming this issue.
Proposed rule shape (P9, unchanged):
When: a word of both the particle and the suffix vocabulary stands before a family comma, with a lone capital letter behind it.
Then: the letter reads as it does in the same part without the particle: a capital is a name word, and the particle heads it.
Because: before a family comma the comma has already named the family; a particle with a name word behind it is a surname particle there.
Except: with a suffix word or nothing behind it, the particle reads as the suffix (SMITH VD, JOHN → suffix VD), as P9 already says.
Fix: in 3.x. The numeral predicate's count should not count a particle that has a name word behind it before a family comma as a word to spare. When the fix lands, remove the deviates: marker from P9's example in the same PR.
The same holds for a name written in one case, which rules/T4 reads as its capitals: smith vd v, john gives family smith vd v under the 2.6.0 wheel, and family smith vd, suffix v on master. #1079 gives it its own deviates: #1080 example in P9.
Activity
Track P9's deviation as #1080, O6's ñ question as #1081, and phase 2'…
Record the 3.x retargets as dated entries and fix the reviews' findings
derek73 commentedon Nov 5, 2026
The same holds for a name written in one case, which rules/T4 reads as its capitals:
smith vd v, johngives familysmith vd vunder the 2.6.0 wheel, and familysmith vd, suffixvon master. #1079 gives it its owndeviates: #1080example in P9.Sweep stale prose for the 3.0.0 release (#1079)
Count every particle out of the family part's numeral count (#1080)
Record the FEC moves of #1080's count as decided
File #1080's count under S10 and fix its release history
Hold the suffix-vocabulary exception to the connective in front of th…